Television interview with Minister Butler, ABC News Breakfast – 12 March 2025

JAMES GLENDAY, HOST: I want to bring in the Federal Health Minister, Mark Butler. Mark, thank you for joining us.
 
MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGED CARE, MARK BUTLER: Good morning, James.
 
GLENDAY: We'll get to your announcement on the fight against black market cigarettes in a moment. You're making that announcement today. But first, can I just get your reaction to the comments from the White House this morning that Australia will not be getting an exemption from US tariffs on steel and aluminium?
 
BUTLER: This is obviously deeply disappointing news but we knew this was going to be a tough fight. The second Trump Administration seems much more determined on this front than perhaps the first administration. And even back then when the Turnbull Government was in office here in Australia, it took nine months to gain the exemption that they ultimately did. We've been working very hard on this. Today's news is disappointing, but we don't see this issue as being over by any means. We will continue to press the case for an exemption from Australian exports from these new tariffs. I want to make the point that open trade has served both of our countries very well. The free trade agreement between our two countries, that's more than 20 years old, has served both of us well. But if anything, it has served America particularly well. They sell much more to us than we sell to them. We'll continue to press that case. Our exports of steel and aluminium underpin good jobs in the US. They're important to our defence ties as well as other parts of American industry. But today is disappointing. There's no question about that.
 
GLENDAY: So I just want to sort of ask a double barrelled question, really, are you still holding out hope that the Trump Administration could have a change of heart on Australia? And do you think that there will be any sort of retaliation from Australia at all?
 
BUTLER: We're still absorbing this, so we'll have more to say more broadly about the decision. But to your first question, James, of course, we will continue to press the case. As I said, several years ago when Malcolm Turnbull was PM, it took nine months of negotiation to obtain the exemption that was obtained under very different circumstances, it must be said. But we've only been going at this for almost seven weeks, that President Trump has been back in office, and we intend to continue to press the case at the highest level. Particularly, Ambassador Rudd has been relentless in this meeting with officials almost constantly to press the American case. We've had a lot of senior ministerial engagement. Obviously, the Prime Minister has spoken directly with the President will continue to do that because it's not only in Australia's interest, which for us is the most important thing. We're confident, we're very sure it's in both of our country's interests to continue the open trade that has characterised, particularly the last 20 years under the US FTA.
 
GLENDAY: Canada's incoming Prime Minister has accused Donald Trump of attacking the Canadian way of life. I know you're going to probably try to avoid criticising the US President too much, but isn't it time to call a spade, a spade? This is now having a damaging effect on international relationships, right?
 
BUTLER: This is a disappointing decision. We think it's a bad economic decision. It's bad for our relationship. It's bad for the US ultimately, because we think that the exports we send to them, which are significantly less than the exports they send to us, are good for the US economy. They're good for US industry. They're particularly good for defence, which is an important area of cooperation. We think this is a bad decision. It's disappointing and we'll continue to press the case for it to change.
 
GLENDAY: On another issue, we brought our viewers the news earlier that Ukraine is open to a ceasefire. What does the Australian Government think of this?
 
BUTLER: Any steps towards a just and enduring peace that particularly protects the independence and the sovereignty of Ukraine has got to be a positive thing. Obviously, there's a bit to play out on the news that we've received over the course of Australia's morning. But of course, if there's a further step towards peace that protects Ukraine's sovereignty against the illegal, immoral invasion by Russia, a war that's now gone on for more than three years, then of course, that's a positive step.
 
GLENDAY: The devil will be in the detail there. You're in Melbourne today to double down on your fight against black market cigarettes. It's an illegal trade that's thought to have contributed to violence, suspicious fires, things like that. What are you announcing this morning?
 
BUTLER: We're doubling down on our enforcement. That, at the end of the day, is the only response to criminal activity like this. You've got to enforce the law. And the resources that I'm announcing today will double down on our efforts to track down the criminals, to bring them to justice, to put them in the dock and prosecute them, and importantly, as well, to seize their profits. The thing about this trade is it not only undermines our public health efforts to stamp out smoking, it bankrolls criminal activity, sex trafficking, drug trafficking, and so much more. What might seem like a relatively innocuous thing to do to buy illegal cigarettes, everyone has to remember, ultimately, is bankrolling the activities of some particularly vile criminal gangs. Lifting the resources for the federal police for a whole lot of other Commonwealth agencies to track this activity and to seize the profits. Cooperation with partner countries that are also dealing with this illegal trade and partnering with state governments that need some more support on enforcement operations and prosecutions as well.
 
GLENDAY: Just lastly, I want to put some context around this. I mean, black market cigarette packets can cost less than $20, and legal cigarettes, which have government taxes, can cost well over $50. That's a huge difference. And there's a view among law enforcement that this is perceived by criminals to be a lower risk enterprise than hard drug or heroin trafficking. Given the big money to be made, are you ever going to be able to get rid of the black market?
 
BUTLER: That's why we have to change that risk reward equation for criminal gangs and for, frankly, the retailers that are facilitating this by selling these cigarettes. The price is high in Australia. We have some of the most expensive cigarettes and we have some of the lowest rates of smoking and those two things are directly related. But countries that have much cheaper, legal cigarettes like the US the UK, many others, they still have a thriving criminal trade in cigarettes as well. I don't buy this argument that if we froze or reduced the price of legal cigarettes somehow, that would cause magically the criminal activity to cease and disappear. The only way to shut down this is enforcement is tracking them down, putting them in the dock, and ultimately seizing their profits.
 
GLENDAY: Health Minister Mark Butler, thank you so much for your time this morning.
 
BUTLER: Thanks, James.